Posted tagged ‘business’

2011 Reputation – that old ‘roasted’ chestnut

30/12/2011

Reputation – that old ‘roasted’ chestnut.  Well, you can’t fail to notice that it is my pet subject and it is also the discipline that I make a living from.  In some ways you’d think from all of the examples and real life experiences that anyone running an organisation or promoting their own profile would have got it right by now but looking back, as I do every year, the reputation low lights are still as prevalent as ever.  When will we ever learn?  Well, maybe that is a question for 2012 and one that I am always willing to debate and discuss.

So, before reading on, just remember reputation is THE factor in determining intellectual capital and that it makes up a whopping 70 to 80% of overall value.  Whether we are talking about personal or organisational reputation then that is an overwhelming figure that means you ought to be taking these examples highlighted here very seriously.

Of course it is difficult to comment on 2011 without regard to the reputation trinity of politics, press and the police.  Politicians have come and gone and none of that is different to any year.  Across the world, political leadership has been awful.  The state of western economies, particularly in the Eurozone is of great concern and is now hurting us all.  In the UK this is the worse time I can remember since the height of Thatcherism in the eighties.  Walking around my home city of Liverpool is a real eye-opener.  Or at least it should be because you have to look closely.

Compare the situation to just three or four years ago and instead of fully occupied offices and retail units you now see numerous for sale and to let signs.  Perhaps more worrying are the number of people sat with pints in pubs at breakfast time.  The betting shops are doing a great trade as is the National Lottery and its new spin off the Health Lottery which managed to launch and establish a positive reputation against a flurry of criticism for only donating 20% to its good cause whilst pocketing 80%.

But they are not alone in terms of some thriving business developments, the Health Lottery is based around the concept of social enterprise and a company structure that is coming in to its own called the Company Interest Company or CiC.  It is my belief that CiCs are the new business model to watch and that whilst charity is not dead (in 2011 charities still continue to hold their reputations and fund raising despite the recession) the lighter regulated and more commercially savvy CiC is the future.  The beauty of a CiC is it allows social need to be met whilst accepting that making money is not necessarily a bad thing – my words.  Of course CiCs can tread a line.  The Salvation Army took a big reputation hit this year turning over £18m through textile trading with a very dubious relationship with a company called Kettering Textiles (check the name of the director who happens to span both organisations and check out K Textiles little earner – £10m – and how little they pay for the textiles per tonne).  Even so, the Sally Army has managed to steer itself through such reputation storms also picking up the BBC Children in Need contract whilst at the same time knocking other charities like the North West Air Ambulance off big supermarket car parks by its commercial approach.  Overall, my prediction is CiCs will be the big story of 2012 as will any aspect of business to do with lifestyle, health and sustainability.

So back to politics.  What a mess.  The coalition has been an unmitigated reputation disaster.  Manifestos are in the bin and Conservatism is in full flow upsetting everyone from students to the rest of Europe.  The economic strategy is off the rails, we have riots on the streets, mass industrial action and the Liberal Democrats imploding.  And yet, David Cameron seems to come out of these disasters stronger and stronger.  It is an incredible result and the opposition seems to get weaker with a leader in Ed Milliband who is being trounced at every point.  Of course, there is a reputation loser and that is Nick Clegg and the Liberal Democrats.  How on earth did a centre left social democratic party think it could work with right wing conservatism – it is beyond me but I am bemused at how well it is playing for the Conservatives and David Cameron.  I still can’t believe the whole plot will not disintegrate and 2012 will be an interesting year.

Meanwhile, as I write this sat on a freezing cold Northern Rail diesel multiple unit that was probably built in 1940 and is clattering up a branch line late I am told that my ticket in 2012 will cost 5% more.  There are a number of businesses that just don’t get it.  The David Lloyd Centres have also announced that due to greater costs they are passing on the costs in higher prices.  Fine, but what all these brands forget – there is a recession and my income and others is not increasing.  Also, their services are not improving. It is a fine line in balancing the marketing 4Ps and they need to be careful.  Northern Rail are generally awful – I take N Rail trains three times a week and the most interesting view of them is working out will I be on a bad train, a very bad train or a very very bad train.  The anticipation at the station platform is great fun!

So who are the big losers this year.  Well let’s skip passed the Police (well if they don’t coral you in), particularly the Met who from kettling to standing back and watching are just an unmitigated disaster.  Their new guy, Bernard Hogan Howe, cut his ‘chief’ teeth in Liverpool and I once sat with him at an Everton match.  Nobody told me who this military type with polished shoes, pressed trousers and impeccably groomed hair was and I decided to sound off about the Police – whoops.  Mind you he took it all well and he is a real PR and digital performer.  There will be few PR or reputation gaffes on his watch or if there are expect them to be dealt with – also expect him to blog and podcast etc.   I’ve had the displeasure of dealing with some bobbies recently for a client.  What a complete bunch of stereotypes they are.  What can I say, they certainly play their parts and they need to get their act together as unfortunately the other two of the trinity, politics and press, will continue to make their lives difficult.

There is little I can add in 2011 about the press reputation except rock bottom and enough said.  The only issue it leaves me with is just how many enquiries, inquiries, inquisitions, reviews do we need.  Every time something goes awry we hold post mortems to the Nth degree.  How about this novel suggestion, why don’t we plan and manage and direct reputation – here comes a plug for my work – well no not really, but the complete lack of investment does worry me and yes I have a ‘for hire’ sign permanently outside my office.  One of the most interesting press reputation issues will be the interaction with the audience.  This week the Lancashire Evening Post announced its intention to suspend comment facilities on its web page and that it is to prosecute a contributor.  The old letters to the editor pages have come a long way and the BBC in particular since moving to Salford, is keen to get down with the people taking everything from Radio 5,s Fighting Talk to BBC One Football Focus into live settings.  It will all end in tears.  Quite honestly, whilst I can stomach a bit of audience participation, the onerous meanderings of chat show phone in groupies is not my choice of viewing and listening.  However, participation is an area of major growth, probably spurred by the Internet accessibility spilling over to other media.  Witness the rise of internet forums, instant messaging (although Blackberry had its service come under reputation flack this summer), phone ins and digital petitions.

Overall business seems to have chartered a fairly calm passage through the sea of reputation although we have lost quite a few brands as the tough climate claims its casualties (Blacks and La Senza being just the latest to cling on).  Interestingly, some businesses actually achieved a unique position of people feeling sorry for them. Those hard hit by the riots gained incredible support.  Brands like Tesco and Starbucks continue to really aim for world or at least high street vs.  out of town/retail park domination. This remains uncomfortable for me as the high street is under threat.  Conversely this has led other traders to fill the gap. 99p Stores is growing fast as a brand as is Home Bargains. For me, the retail brand of the year is Aldi, closely followed by Lidl. Aldi offers a great experience and their prices are exceptional. A brand to watch in 2012.  One of the store assistants in Aldi told me recently they had 50% more people visiting them this year than last.  Of corse four pints of milk in my l;coal Tesco £1.80 and in Aldi £1 – I know who I want to have the 80p difference – me!

So what about organisations that have really made a reputation mess. Well, St Paul’s Cathedral lost the plot when the Occupy camp arrived. A perfect example of an organisation that just did not plan or manage its reputation. I passed by the camp last week and was mildly amused to see that the camp is now sited next to a Blacks Outdoor Store – good planning except that brand is struggling towards a pre-pack and rescue. Travellers and camps took a reputation bashing generally with the disaster at Dale Farm.

But for me, the reputation disaster has to be in the sports sector and in particular football. At the time of writing two high profile international players are embroiled in serious allegations relating to racism, there isn’t a day goes by that doesn’t present another character to the pantomime, whether that be an imature player letting off fireworks or a tempremental prima donna refusing to play and fulfill his contract. The real reputation disaster starts at the top – rules, officials, governance is devoid of any sense of control or balance. So this year I nominate FIFA as the entity with the worse reputation.

Pause for a moment – its not just football. The Rugby Football Union collapsed at the seams as its huge bureaucratic, and if I may observe rather pompous, establishment failed to grasp that professional players had to be just that – professional. London showed how fragile it may prove next year failing to anticipate a late finish at the world ATP tennis finals, the showcase world tennis event already under threat from our archaic tax laws, stranding thousands at a closed tube station. Even Boris Johnson, Mayor of London, got in on the act by holding up play by arriving late to his seat – mind you that was very funny to see the camera on Boris and his bag of popcorn whilst Roger Federer glared at him. And the BBC showcase Sports Personality of the Year unfortunately managed to conjure up a 100% female free event.

So sport is the reputation loser in 2011 – a complete mess of egos, inadequate ownership, overpaid and out of touch practitioners and a gullible following from punters to pundits. FIFA are not the exception, but one wonders who on earth carries out their PR and stakeholder management.

So looking forward, one can only wonder what we will face in 2012. The Olympics is the obvious ‘trip wire,’ sport can be relied on to keep the poor reputation flag flying although I hope it is the opposite and that next year I will be upholding it as THE reputation winner.  The tenuous coalition will no doubt give us a lot to ponder.

From my perspective, convincing organisations and people to plan and manage reputation remains my priority.  It’s a mantra worth chanting.

Construction News – Reputation management and PR

23/09/2011

Bodyproject contributes to Construction News article on reputation management and PR:

My company is called Bodyproject and we work with complex organisations that are trying to manage complex issues to complex stakeholders. There is a price to reputation that is part of a company’s intellectual capital.

We work with clients in construction, energy and waste management and often find that senior teams are so tied up with the book value that they forget that about 70-80% of their overall company value is actually in the intellectual capital.

A quick flick through Construction News or this website confirms this as you will see lots of information about numbers (schemes, financials) etc but little about the less tangible area of reputation unless reporting failures.

Risk management is part of the reputation mix but the biggest imperative is on how a company implements environmental and social aspects into their corporate governance. How they truly engage with stakeholders to gain insight and influence to protect and promote their reputation.

Too often this isn’t factored in (you can see it in Construction News with the constant reporting of numbers and book value type subject matter rather than that impacting intellectual capital) and hence we continue to see failures at the examples given above (BP, Toyota, RBS etc) – what is alarming is that many construction projects and companies still don’t seem to get it and so David is right they need to seek the expertise to help them (I would say that as a consultant wouldn’t I)

It is not just PR etc – it’s real stakeholder management and integrated marketing communications. Those that do seek help won’t end up as reputation casualties.

2010 – a year in reputation

29/12/2010

“…Everybody knew that whenever the thaw came that there was going to be big problems with water, so I think that there was a lack of preparation by NI Water, particularly in the issue of communication…”

Northern Ireland Environment Minister Edwin Poots

It’s that time of the year again when the television schedules are packed with the top 100 countdowns and the printed media publish endless top 10s recording everything from the best comedy to the worse gaffes.  December is truly the month of lists.

So it has prompted me to think of 2010 and who are the winners and losers in terms of promoting and protecting reputation.

In the UK, the year was punctuated by two weather related events as temperatures plummeted to record levels and snow and ice deluged our lives.  Virtually every organisation and person was tested and it is interesting how many 365 day 24 hour services really became fine words rather than effective actions.  The first rule of reputation is that ‘actions speak louder than words’.  However it is often the words (communications) or lack of them that really matter when the reputational chips are down.

The organisation that book-ended the year is Eurostar, the high-speed train operator running services between London Pancras and the continent.  The first problems came when their state of the art trains hit a major engineering ‘wall’ grinding to a halt in the channel tunnel in December 2009 and stranding passengers in very difficult circumstances drawing criticism from media, the public, politicians and even the French President.  In January a further failure followed by a three day suspension of service heaped criticism on the company.  And then came December 2010 with pictures of people standing in a line stretching a mile or more into freezing conditions with Police intervention to control the crowds.

Looking back, there is a common theme between the two incidents, a constant complaint of ‘lack of communication and lack of information.’  The operator of state of the art trains and stations unable to communicate basic information.  It’s patently obvious that building the best station in the world is great but when a queue forms the fact passengers have to sprawl onto the streets in minus temperatures is a reputational disaster.

Transport and infrastructure operators are easy reputational targets.  Whilst Eurostar is highlighted here it could well be the British Airports Authority (BAA) at Heathrow or any number of transport operators.  The eruption of a volcano in Iceland was enough to throw our whole infrastructure into turmoil.  And on that point in terms of reputations it isn’t just people and organisations that have a reputation to maintain:  Iceland, Ireland and Greece became economically a reputational disaster.

Utilities came in for a particular panning.  Many of us became aware of the frailties of the ‘combi-boiler’ and its incredible design flaw – the condensation pipe.  Which brilliant engineer and numerous installers had thought that the new energy efficient boiler was to fail on an unprecedented scale.

At the time of writing this blog there is a crisis in Northern Ireland as water has become a scarcity through the thaw and burst pipes.  In the capital city, Belfast, shops are out of bottled water and the council is making emergency supplies available.  Again, the main complaint is the lack of information and communication from Northern Ireland Water – I tried to log onto their website which just can’t cope and is actually displaying HTML source code as it has obviously ‘burst’ its capacity as well.

The biggest loser of the year from an economic, environmental and reputation aspect was BP when its deepwater rig blew up spilling vast amounts of oil into the Gulf of Mexico.  The response was astoundingly inept from the clean up to the communication and top managers feted by their shareholders showed that they had no skill whatsoever in dealing with crisis, risk and stakeholders.

In fact inept and incompetent bosses are often those most in the reputational headlights during 2010.  Take Sepp Blatter of FIFA, an organisation that seems to be beyond any form of normal corporate governance.  Football, by far one of the biggest sports in the world is so badly ruled and managed that is it almost a standing joke.  Take the completely ludicrous attitude to the use of technology to assist officials and then compound it by a perception of corruption that permeates the very core of the sport.  The awarding of the World Cup, a shambolic bidding exercise in public procurement that ended up with FIFA near humiliating the future King of our country and its Prime Minister.

And then there is the ‘deficit’ in truth.  Nick Clegg of the Liberal Democrats has experienced a year when he was seen as the new hope through his X Factor style TV debate appearances that failed to materialise into a credible result at the ballot box yet gave him a mandate for power which has been an unmitigated disaster in terms of his reputation.  A recent local election result swung against his party by 31% and the throwing out of election promises and manifesto pledges has led to a major outcry.

So at its heart reputation is often attributed to individuals, inadequate communications but also how organisations manage their integrity and their risk profile particularly at a time of crisis.  Why are all these organisations that make so much of their performance all seemingly acting like lumbering dinosaurs in terms of their ability to communicate.  Why are top companies unable to talk to customers and listen to them?

Social networking certainly outfoxed most organisations; they are just woefully unable and sometimes unwilling to deal with the Twitter and Facebook generation.  In the Heathrow snow closures ‘critical’ tweets were being sent from stranded customers at a rate of four per second.  During the student protests the might of our Police force were outwitted by such applications and ‘citizen journalists’ recorded every aspect of every notable event.

Of course there were some winners.  Apple Inc faced a real crisis when its normally state of the art products hit a problem.  The technical difficulties faced by the iPhone4 at first led the company into a state of disbelief.  However, as the social networks began to rumble the company acted fast and the CEO was up in front of the cameras taking rapid action to rectify the issue.

Other companies like Caffe Nero just have it right in terms of customer service.  Their recognition scheme, Nero stars, is a great way to recognise good service and reward customers again with clear communication from the CEO.

There is a theme developing here but one that seems hard to learn – that is those organisations who put their reputation as high as their performance and growth strategies are those that perform best.  It is a lesson that hopefully more organisations will learn in 2011.

For more information about Bodyproject and our Advanced Stakeholder Management methodology that helps organisations promote and protect reputation call 0151 709 2288 or e-mail nicktaylor@bodyproject.co.uk

Reputation – why it matters and how you can manage it

09/11/2010

“…Reputation, reputation, reputation! Oh, I have lost my reputation! I have lost the immortal part of myself, and what remains is bestial…”

William Shakespeare Othello. ACT II Scene 3.

Later this month, the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants (CIMA) will publish a report by Leslie Kossoff entitled: “Reputation – why it matters and how you can manage it.”

In the weeks leading up to publication, Bodyproject will be debating the role of reputation in relation to high performance and growth.  Bodyproject’s Advanced Stakeholder Management (ASM) methodology supports organisations in protecting and promoting reputation.  In this first article we look at the importance of reputation and its critical role within successful organisations.

CIMA President, George Glass, recently drew a parallel to a famous beer commercial when he said: “Management accountants add value to the corporate parts other accountants cannot reach.”  It’s an interesting thought and not before time that a key business profession realises that they have further to go in adding value than their role suggests by also considering the value attributed to reputation.

In our opinion there are three dimensions to business success: performance, growth and reputation.  The first two dimensions are tangible, measurable and therefore manageable.  They are the bastions of traditional accounting defined by the elements that make up book value and can be measured by the strength of the balance sheet.  The third dimension, reputation, is different.  It is almost wholly intangible, difficult to measure and therefore very difficult to manage.

And yet, reputation’s value and consequent potential liability is great, almost infinite in some respects.  Whilst book value and traditional accounting is one way of valuing a business, it misses the true value that makes up a business’s intellectual capital – the goodwill that creates the absolute value that is often only realised during a sale but may be severely damaged or enhanced at almost anytime.

Mario Simon, the Managing Director of American market research company Millward Brown Optimor illustrates this when he says: “In 1980 almost 100 per cent of the value of an average Standard & Poor’s 500 company consisted of tangible assets such as chairs, factories and inventory.

“That figure is now more like 30 or 40 per cent – the rest comes from intangible value, about half of which is attributed to brand.

“It is not a stretch to say that for many companies brand is their single biggest asset.”

So, it is hardly surprising that reputation is now being recognised as increasingly the most critical dimension of success.  High growth and performance are vitally important but equally so is the protection and promotion of reputation.

So what exactly is reputation and how does it differ to brand?

Brand is often defined as the ‘corporate promise’ that it is assumed that the organisation has some control over, whilst reputation is more a way stakeholders perceive the organisation.

Chris Fill, co-author of Managing Corporate Reputation, describes brand as: “how a company wants to be seen and is all about the corporate promise. Reputation is entirely a stakeholder perception over time.

“Stakeholders will make an assessment of how well the organisation has performed against the brand’s promise.”

In our view reputation is not that simple to define and its lack of tangibility makes it a difficult proposition for people to understand.  Reputation is made up of three component parts:  identity, image and personality.

Identity is similar to the corporate promise in that it is almost wholly controlled by the organisation and is ostensibly what it says about itself through its brand, advertising, products and services etc.   Image is the reverse opposite – the perceptions of its stakeholders.  The third aspect is that of personality – often this can be viewed of how well the identity and image match up but actually is more like the state of reality in which the organisation exists.  It is actually the organisation’s true self as opposed to the rather different realities created through identity and perceived through image.

This is hugely complex and is deeply swathed in all sorts of philosophy and psychology.  But if organisation leaders do not intellectually grasp its importance then they risk their performance and growth.

When Kraft Food Inc bought Cadburys they were buying a company with a book value of £4bn.  They actually paid more like $11.9bn.  The element of ‘goodwill’ or intellectual capital was a huge proportion of the value of that acquisition.  The battle for the sale was hard fought and included a massive aspect of reputation with over 94% of the British population reporting through a YouGov poll that they were aware of the sale.  For the harsh corporate Kraft it all came as a shock.  When they went on to sell a factory, against promises made during the sales process, their reputation was badly hit and ended with them apologising to the British Parliament.

In fact the Kraft Foods Chief Executive Irene B Rosenfeld in the lead up to the sale recognised the importance of reputation and its link to the intrinsic value of intellectual capital when she wrote to the UK Government’s business secretary stating: “(she understood) the concerns of the UK government and I can again assure you of our intentions to proceed with sincere respect for Cadbury’s heritage, people and identity.”

On her recent visit to the UK she jokingly said that she had been surprised at the role of the Crème Egg in British culture.  No joke really when that product alone has estimated brand value of £45m.

David Haigh, CEO of brand valuation consultancy Brand Finance, explains the value of reputation in relation to brand when he says: “Brands affect all audiences or all stakeholder groups – from customers to staff and financiers.

“If the brand is highly regarded then they behave in a more favourable way towards the organisation, which then drives up its value.

“For each of the audiences of an organisation there is the same broad set of criteria – functional delivery, image and conduct – by which they judge whether it’s a good brand or not.”

At Bodyproject, we try to look at the entire role played by performance, growth in concert with reputation.  We no longer think that book value is an adequate judgement of value and that competitive advantage is derived solely from the tangible aspects of doing business.  It is the management of stakeholders and the integration of marketing communications as a ‘hard’ discipline alongside accounting and legal that the true difference is seen.

The Kossoff report will make vital reading and what is most important is that it is being published by CIMA.  Reputation has long been associated with the ‘softer’ professions such as public relations and marketing but it is time that its role is recognised at every boardroom table.  Because, no matter how good your performance, no matter what your growth aspirations are you will only be as good as your reputation.

In our next article to be published week commencing 15th November we will consider in more detail one of the components of reputation – identity.

For more information about Bodyproject and our Advanced Stakeholder Management methodology that helps organisations promote and protect reputation call 0151 709 2288 or e-mail nicktaylor@bodyproject.co.uk

Advanced Stakeholder Management aids recovery!

05/08/2010

“…If you grow slowly and strongly, you will be around for a long time…”

Edwin Booth Chairman Booths Supermarkets

Business has never been harder, but in some sectors there is an increasing understanding that the only way to recover and even survive is through continued investment and growth.

The Chartered Institute of Public Relations (CiPR) latest ‘state of the industry’ research reports a marked increase in PR budgets with professionals expressing confidence in terms of the health of the PR industry and growth expectations.

A host of areas are predicted for growth in the coming year, with key ‘ones to watch’ being online reputation management, crisis management and strategic planning.

Bodyproject, a niche consultancy based in Liverpool, that pioneers an Advanced Stakeholder Management (ASM) methodology, believes that those businesses that want to succeed and grow are continuing to invest to protect and promote their reputation.

Nick Taylor, owner of Bodyproject comments: “The strength of the balance sheet is clearly a major factor but more and more companies are understanding that the true value of their business is tied up in their intangible assets and intellectual capital.

“Those businesses that continue to invest and take a strategic approach to managing their reputation are also the ones that are expressing optimism that they can trade their way through the recession”

Bodyproject is seeing a great deal of interest in the ASM methodology from businesses that are growing, increasing employment, achieving more sales, reducing costs and demonstrably becoming profitable.

Nick continues: “I am convinced that to be successful in business you have to go beyond the traditional aspects of stakeholder management around the protection of reputation and brand.

“Our ASM methodology is an innovative strategy seeking to integrate the management of stakeholders into core business with visibility and control from senior leaders and board level rather than solely the preserve of PR, marketing and communications departments.”

Businesses achieving direct commercial advantage understand the essential elements of stakeholder relationships, including the development of a better brand image, additional market insight, increased flow of new product and service ideas, improvement of internal business processes, better insight into consumer behaviour, new marketing channels for company products and services, and early warning of potential risk and crisis.

A tonic for the troops

19/07/2010

“…You don’t know what it is but there’s got to be more.  You’d better find a way out, hey kick down that door…”

Lyrics Geldof, Rat Trap by The Boomtown Rats

It was 1976 and as a 13 year old I was fast discovering the important role music played and still does play in my life.  It was an exciting and invigorating period in musical history.  Our economy was in tatters and the ‘iron lady’ was at the height of her Government.  Punk rock was mystical and scary and yet one day in a small record shop I picked up a seven inch single that still to this day is my number one.  The record, Mary of the 4th form by an Irish band, The Boomtown Rats was just raw energy and captured my imagination.

I collected every press cutting, bought every record and attended their concerts.  Thirty-three years on and I was recently looking through their cuttings and one headline stood out.  It described their lead singer as likely to be bigger than Mick Jagger.  Well little did I know that he was going to fulfil that prophecy and also go on to have such a profound impact on our globe through his activism.  Bob Geldof certainly made history and again I was proud to be in Wembley Stadium at the Live Aid gigs but even prouder to meet him six months later at a Boomtown Rats gig.

It doesn’t surprise me that in running my company Bodyproject that  Sir Bob is still the guy I look up to; dishing out the best advice anyone could listen to and that his articulate prose is now being bestowed on us business types.  It is a difficult time for all in business but read these three quotes given by Sir Bob and I am sure you will feel entirely uplifted.

The quotes are taken from a conference hosted by Chris Cardell (www.cardellmedia.co.uk)

“…Find the idea.  Articulate it, so that everyone working with you agrees to this end object and it cannot be just money – it just can’t be – there has to be some other purpose because you are tired of the bleating of people who become successful…discontent is true of the entrepreneurial lot; so when you go out to make your own jobs, to create your own businesses, to make real intangibles like ideas – you are doing it I suggest for something other than simply cash…It’s the idea that excites you!  It is the realisation itself that you aren’t creatures of another person.  That you are determining your own life and fuck failure – It doesn’t exist.  Not to our mindset…”

Sir Bob Gedolf speaking at Chris Cardell’s Entrepreneurial Summit July 2010